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Arizona Wildcats Basketball Forums => Arizona Wildcats Basketball => Topic started by: WILD on January 13, 2020, 11:15:03 AM

Title: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: WILD on January 13, 2020, 11:15:03 AM
Smith was 0-6 and fouled an Oregon State 3 point shooter twice. Baker had a quiet 10 points. I think it's time to start Baker over Smith. Check the stats below.

(https://i.ibb.co/9cy5fyz/Screenshot-20200113-111154-Chrome.jpg)
Title: Re: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: TennesseeCat36 on January 13, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
I would be all for that and want that but Miller isn't going to do that and I'm sure Smith and Jeter will be starting Thursday night. I would like to see Mannion Baker Green Gettings and Zeke
Title: Re: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: grantj22 on January 13, 2020, 12:06:12 PM
Definitely time for a change in the starting line up. Pretty tired of watching Smith and Jeter Screw up.
Title: Re: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: arxpert on January 13, 2020, 12:35:55 PM
We are lacking 4 or 5 players who can play 30 minutes per game so we can't shorten the lineup down to 8 players like we need to. There is no way to do it without looking bad somewhere. I would be fine with Baker getting 30 minutes and just riding with him and 2-9 type nights as long as the volume from Nico/Zeke/Green is also increased.

Josh Green doing a lot of hard work, but FG attempts need to come way more frequently. He isn't the 4th man on this team and to even think that someone like Baker or Dylan are alpha dogging him out of possessions makes Green sound extremely soft which we know he isn't. (And no one can say Miller is telling Green he isn't allowed to shoot the ball or ask for it)

Leading the team in minutes overall and last night with 32 minutes.
1st half: FG attempts with 17:56, 14:47, 9:50, 1:07
2nd half: FG attempts with 16:35, 13:40, 12:46, 7:24, 4:31, 1:47 -- (Nico was effectively benched basically from somewhere around 5min left in the game)

Its just food for thought. Ive been labeled a Green Hater for saying i've noticed he disappears on offense often for long stretches. But here is some proof in the pudding i guess.
Title: Re: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: 01Cats on January 13, 2020, 01:26:44 PM
We need more effort plays. Smith and Jeter are both seniors playing on likely their last meaningful basketball of their careers. If they don't want it bad enough... let's move on and hope we can get some effort. Also I don't understand why Ira hasn't gotten any run lately. Guy plays his ass off. He's our strongest most athletic player imo. Regularly guards guys 5-6 inches taller than he is and handles his own.
Title: Re: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: Eurozona on January 13, 2020, 01:58:05 PM
I don't think those stats don't tell the who story. Baker's defense was extremely bad and Smith was probably our best defender against OSU. I'll take defense over offense all day.
Title: Re: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: Bear on January 13, 2020, 07:07:23 PM
Every time I look at Baker's stats, I wonder how he ended up so close to Dylan because it seems he has had far more poor games than good ones.  Dylan has had a couple bad games but overall he has done exactly what he needed to.  Hit some big 3s and played defense.

If the stats tell the whole story, we should also bench Nico for Baker as Baker has a better a:to and 3p%. 

If this was the Smith from last year and we didn't need Baker to spell Mannion, this might not even be up for debate, probably would have happened already.
Title: Re: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: 2012Cat on January 13, 2020, 07:11:56 PM
Bakers defense was so bad. However Dylan is so bad all around. I'd choose baker
Title: Re: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: arxpert on January 13, 2020, 11:47:16 PM
The only reason we keep seeing Dylan is because he is actually taking initiative. Eventhough its mixed results. Like Oregon he was 3-4 from 3 i think with a huge 3 toward the end. Yes missed a FT, but Zeke missed 3, CK Loko missed 1. It's just the overall desire to try to make plays. It's not preferred over seeing Nico force it more or Green attack. Can't really say Zeke isn't working cuz he is performing with Double and Triple teams in the post. Miller has effectively declared "If you want the spot, play better than the person who has it now besides Nico, Green, Zeke". If Hazzard, Baker can't knock Dylan out of the lineup that is on them. Gettings is knocking Jeter's minutes off already. Along with a slight increase to CK Loko who is doing well with his raw progression, but clearly was outmatched/out physicaled by the thicker ogres of Oregon State the other night.

So in summary -- Someone has to play. If no one is convincing enough to knock Dylan out of his spot there's really no reason to keep talking about it. Miller gave Baker and Hazzard 18 min each vs Oregon State and they did nothing with it to stay on the court.
Title: Re: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: Blafresh on January 14, 2020, 12:28:32 AM
At this point, Dylan Smith is a better defender than Baker. I am sick and tired of opponents blowing by Baker's non-existent defense. Yes Smith is a bonehead for always fouling the 3pt shot but is the lesser of 2 evils on defense imo.

The OSU stats are inflated as Baker hit 1-2 of his 3pters when the game was out of reach. Also how does Baker have 0 assists in 17 minutes? Dylan Smith hit some clutch 3pters in the Oregon game. I say Dylan should play more than Baker mostly because of defense but only shoot the 3 if he is wide open and in motion.
Title: Re: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: AZip on January 14, 2020, 12:50:14 AM
This subject is prevalent through out all chat sites. Baker for Smith. KOLOKO or Gettings for Jeter. I for one cannot seeing it happen...WHY?  Cause CSM is to damn stubborn. I know for a fact he is reading our posts and just to piss us off....he won't change.  OKOK...in all seriousness...we need a change and I for one would like to see Baker over Smith. Then change Jeter the next game. I am so tired of CSM not seeing that the starters are not working...especially Smith.....one of the most irritating players in a long time.
Title: Re: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: arxpert on January 14, 2020, 01:33:27 AM
Yes Miller is loyal to seniors, but he has given everyone besides Weyand, Kobe Jones and Desjardins opportunities to stake their claim for the 2 starting spots around Nico, Green, Zeke.

The only players he is truly stubborn about are Nico, Green, and Zeke.

Everyone else is getting a lot of playing time  except Ira who you would think Miller would show loyalty to under this logic, but he isn't. CK Loko has always been a raw talent project. He doesn't deserve minutes just because other players are underachieving. I really thought he was going to be a redshirt this year. That was supposed to be the plan.

So Miller isn't really playing favorites at this point. Starting doesn't mean anything if you name isn't Nico, Green, or Zeke. Everyone else is rotated in and out with a lot of frequency.

Maybe Miller should get "mean" and pick who he wants as his 8 man rotation and stick to it. 30 min for 5 players, then spread the remaining 50 minutes between 3 guys like Nico, Baker, Green, Gettings, Zeke all 30 minutes. Dylan 20 min, Ira OR Hazzard 15 min, Jeter OR Koloko 15 min and just live+die by it going to the 2 guys left out only if extreme foul trouble arises. If you want Dylan and Jeter completely OUT under this theory, than you better be willing to accept bad games from Baker, Hazzard, and Koloko. They aren't perfect players nor full blown solutions.

Miller is trying to mix and match, find ways to win more than find ways to lose. Giving everyone a chance is coming at a detriment now. 18 minutes for Baker AND Hazzard last game got us blown out. There is no way to say that 30 minutes of CK Loko would have changed the game as he was being bullied by Oregon State's Thicker Ogres. Could Miller have tried Nico, Green, ZEKE, Jeter, and CK Loko when Oregon State was bullying? Maybe, but that requires Zeke to stretch his game and the only thing working was Zeke in the low post.
Title: Re: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: talj1@juno.com on January 14, 2020, 02:02:46 PM
Smith has improved over all this year but in crunch time when it really matters he has been terrible.  He single candidly lost the Oregon game.
Title: Re: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: Manillathrilla on January 14, 2020, 03:27:50 PM
whoever thinks DS is a starter on an NCAA championship team is a CLOWN... end of story
Title: Re: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: arxpert on January 25, 2020, 10:51:48 PM
Quote from: arxpert on January 13, 2020, 12:35:55 PM
We are lacking 4 or 5 players who can play 30 minutes per game so we can't shorten the lineup down to 8 players like we need to. There is no way to do it without looking bad somewhere. I would be fine with Baker getting 30 minutes and just riding with him and 2-9 type nights as long as the volume from Nico/Zeke/Green is also increased.

Josh Green doing a lot of hard work, but FG attempts need to come way more frequently. He isn't the 4th man on this team and to even think that someone like Baker or Dylan are alpha dogging him out of possessions makes Green sound extremely soft which we know he isn't. (And no one can say Miller is telling Green he isn't allowed to shoot the ball or ask for it)

Leading the team in minutes overall and last night with 32 minutes.
1st half: FG attempts with 17:56, 14:47, 9:50, 1:07
2nd half: FG attempts with 16:35, 13:40, 12:46, 7:24, 4:31, 1:47 -- (Nico was effectively benched basically from somewhere around 5min left in the game)

Its just food for thought. Ive been labeled a Green Hater for saying i've noticed he disappears on offense often for long stretches. But here is some proof in the pudding i guess.

^^^ See quote above:

I have made a few comments on Josh Green's game here and there throughout the season and all of the things added up tonight massively. That 0/7 will not be forgotten for a long time in the Wildcat universe.
Title: Re: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: 2012Cat on January 25, 2020, 10:58:23 PM
A freshman can have an off game and even as bad as green played offensively he was still better than Dylan smith. Why does this guy continue to lead the team in minutes? He can literally barely dribble the ball. I don't get it
Title: Re: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: WILD on January 25, 2020, 11:04:43 PM
It's time to bench start Baker over Smith. If Miller doesn't make this move then we're doomed. Smith takes forced shots and misses crunch time free throws. Miller has to make this move. Hopefully sooner than later.
Title: Re: I think it's time for Miller to start Baker over Smith
Post by: Eurozona on January 26, 2020, 11:01:39 AM
I'd agree is Baker was playing well, but he is not. Baker may force shots more than Smith. We are kind of stuck with Smith and his inconsistent play.