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Author Topic: How he do dat?  (Read 587 times)

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Offline jumpinjohnny

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How he do dat?
« on: February 14, 2020, 12:17:03 AM »
Has there ever been a coach who showed greater improvement in less than a week's time than Sean Miller? The man's a miracle worker!
Read em and weep

Online Titan4Wildcats

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Re: How he do dat?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2020, 08:03:11 AM »
I've been a Coach Miller fan and backer since he got here.  He is a great coach.  Is he the best?  NO.  Could he become one of the best ever?  Probably.  From what I can tell, his biggest problem comes from the way he handles new players vs returning players.  Great players want to come to Arizona.  Coach Miller is a very good recruiter.  He tells the recruits that if they come and work hard they earn a spot and play.  I believe this is where the problem is.  I believe this is the final hurdle to get over.  Coach Miller has, consistently been a loyal coach.  The guys that stay and keep working get the time.  The freshmen come in, work hard, but the senior players play.  And I believe, the freshmen feel this isn't fair.  They came and worked hard.  They want to play.  They make mistakes.  They LEARN from their mistakes.  I believe they feel they should get the playing time instead of an experienced player because they are a 5* and the returner is a 4*.  They feel they could do better but don't get the chance because if they make a "freshman" mistake, they're on the bench.  They don't get OJT, they get "one strike and you're OUT!"  There are pros and cons to Coach Miller's methods...of this I'm sure.  But this is the consistent problem.  Whether there are any lies being spread or not.  Whether there are investigations or not.  The Wildcats have gone from a dumpster fire to a top ten team in a few seasons of being coached by Coach Miller.  Yet they haven't been able to jump that last hurdle.  I don't have the magic beans of how to help Coach Miller get over this last difficulty.  There is so much to balance with these young thoroughbreds.  They want the big bucks and they want them yesterday.  To get those, they want the spot light.  They want to show off their skills so they can do what they've worked most of their lives to get.  They don't want to stand in line, they want to do a dunk over the line!  Coach Miller has to be honest to get them to commit.  He has to have a plan.  Somehow, between their arrival, and the Dance, the effort is gone.  The chemistry isn't as good.  They can't get over the hump. 

I saw a comment in the SB yesterday, my apologies for not remembering who said it, but the gist was that with Coach Olson, the Wildcats went to a final four every four years.  That's pretty accurate, and tells you how at the same time.  Players in those days were still(mostly) staying several years...usually four.  Every four years the Wildcats had a senior laden team with tons of experience and ATTITUDE.  To compare Coach Miller to Coach Olson in this particular instance is Apples to Oranges.  Coach Miller has to deal with One And Dones.  This was a rarity for Coach Olson.  For Coach Miller it's the norm.  That in itself is more than enough to explain the difference of FF's.  What Coach Miller has to do, it appears to me at least, is to figure out how to be able to let the new guys in the game when they're better than the returning guys, and still honor his word about the effort reward.  I truly believe this is that last hurdle. 

Wildcat4life

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Re: How he do dat?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2020, 09:48:21 AM »
Maybe itís the fact that the cats played the bottom feeder of the PAC. Iíll give Miller some credit, but the talent level between  Cal and AZ might of had something to do with the outcome. Titan- After Olson left the program was on a decline based on Luteís medical issues, but still was a well regarded program with a national brand. The amount of excuses for Miller is tiresome. The last five years have been well below AZ standards, especially with amount of talent on the teams. When do people finally look at the coach for the majority of problems. Miller gave Coach Cronin a hard time for using youth as a excuse when his team(Xavier) beat Cincy, but how hypocritical of Miller to do the same thing. Look it up he stated it. Miller has more excuses for his performance and occasional takes responsibility. Miller has been through difficult times the last three years, but he is the steward of the program and has some responsibility for the issues at hand. I would love to see Miller grow as coach and make leaps and bounds over the next two years, but I think Miller is too stubborn to grow. If this team makes the sweet 16 then Iíll be the first to give Miller credit. Sorry any typos or grammatical errors as Iím posting from my phone.

Offline ChrisZona

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Re: How he do dat?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2020, 10:30:32 AM »
I saw a comment in the SB yesterday,  my apologies for not remembering who said it, but the gist was that with Coach Olson, the Wildcats went to a final four every four years.  That's pretty accurate, and tells you how at the same time.  Players in those days were still(mostly) staying several years...usually four.  Every four years the Wildcats had a senior laden team with tons of experience and ATTITUDE.  To compare Coach Miller to Coach Olson in this particular instance is Apples to Oranges.  Coach Miller has to deal with One And Dones.  This was a rarity for Coach Olson.  For Coach Miller it's the norm.  That in itself is more than enough to explain the difference of FF's.  What Coach Miller has to do, it appears to me at least, is to figure out how to be able to let the new guys in the game when they're better than the returning guys, and still honor his word about the effort reward.  I truly believe this is that last hurdle. 

Different era, all coaches in today's game have to deal with massive turnover it's not an excuse for Millers lack of final fours(none). And despite becoming a recruiting power under Miller it's not like Arizona has become a 1 and done factory like Duke or Kentucky, we land plenty of long term prospects to mix in with the 1 or 2 five star recruits we usually bring in. Arizona under Miller has for the most part been pretty mediocre(hit and miss) in the development and evaluation but of recent it's been downright poor(excluding Zeke). We need a backbone, assuming Miller's in for the long run next year's class is critical outside the potential addition of Ziarie and any grad transfers all our additions should be long term prospects. We can't afford any more 2018/2019 type classes Randolph(poor development), Akot(complete bust), Barcello(poor development), Williams(health problems),  Thielemons(complete bust), Doutrive(head case/misusage). Excluding Ayton of course, Lee is the only player from the last two classes that is still here and that has moderately improved, that is beyond unacceptable. Also If Millers staying he needs better assistants Danny Peters is the only one worth keeping his midwest connection has been valuable, if money is an issue then just downgrade Murphy and find a legit associate head coach. We should have went for that defensive specialist from Michigan but of course we settled.

Wildcat4life

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Re: How he do dat?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2020, 10:54:44 AM »
This ^^^^^^ well written and spot on. 👍

Online PacSouthwest

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Re: How he do dat?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2020, 11:43:10 AM »
I saw a comment in the SB yesterday, my apologies for not remembering who said it, but the gist was that with Coach Olson, the Wildcats went to a final four every four years.  That's pretty accurate, and tells you how at the same time.  Players in those days were still(mostly) staying several years...usually four.  Every four years the Wildcats had a senior laden team with tons of experience and ATTITUDE.  To compare Coach Miller to Coach Olson in this particular instance is Apples to Oranges.  Coach Miller has to deal with One And Dones.  This was a rarity for Coach Olson.  For Coach Miller it's the norm.  That in itself is more than enough to explain the difference of FF's. 
Nobody is forcing Miller to recruit so many 1-and-done's. He could easily adjust his philosophy and try to achieve a balance between talent and longevity. Now that he is at Arizona and can recruit 5 star players (vs Xavier where players were staying longer) his recruiting philosophy does not mesh with the systems he runs. Miller's offensive and defensive sets are not easy to learn; it takes time. (1) The kids cannot pick-up his system in 1 year, (2) the yearly player turnover assures he will have a young team every year, and (3) the players are always 'thinking' rather than just 'playing'. Kentucky, for example, has coped better with 1-N-D's because Calipari does not force his players into a specific system. He plays to the strength of a particular team. In my opinion, Miller needs to either adjust his system to fit 1 year players or adjust his recruiting to allow more time for players to learn. I doubt it will happen, since it would be difficult to ignore top-tier talent, but the latter would seems to be the easier fix.

Offline TJ74

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Re: How he do dat?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2020, 11:50:49 AM »
I think comparing Miller to Olson is really an exercise in futility.  Olson did not deal with one and dones in his primary basketball coaching years at Arizona.  He always had a much more mature group of players.  He also retained and kept a lot of his assistants through those years.  What is fair is to compare Miller to his contemporaries in this AWFUL one and done era.  We have been a basket away from a FF a couple of times.  I think the issue we have now is when F ESPN broke the story on Ayton, we lost recruits and thus our holdovers are not up to snuff.  I do think he needs to quit favoring a senior just because he stayed.  But this year is a problem.  We don't have any depth leftover from last year and we are trying to put a team together with 8 essentially new players on a 9 man rotation.  I strongly feel even with that we should be better.  There is a disconnect somewhere - either between the players themselves or the players and the coaches.  I tend to believe it is between the players and the coaches.  And probably the coaches and the coaches because of a lack of continuity between the coaches.  Will we get better - not sure but certainly hope so.

Offline TennesseeCat36

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Re: How he do dat?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2020, 12:08:14 PM »
To me itís damned if you do, damned if you donít when it
Comes to recruiting. If you donít get the 5 stars you are going to struggle for a year or 2 but then again Miller can recruit 4 stars and if they overachieve (Zeke) then they are gone as well. Whatís amazing is how a guy like Roy Williams can get those 4 stars to stay 3 and 4 years when they could easily have went pro after their sophomore year. My friend is a Huge UNC fan and he says itís Roy man abs how players love playing for them that they stay instead of going pro early and settling for a
Late 1st round pick or 2nd round pick but Iíve seen too
Many times that our guys will turn pro after a year or 2 max and only be projected late 1st/2nd round. If you recruit a 4 star and think heís gonna be a 3 or 4 year player but he overachieves and is gone after a year or 2 then what can you possibly do about that? If the 4 star comes in and sits for a year then he gets mad and wants to transfer to a school that will give him a bigger role and we have seen way too many of those lately also so itís really difficult to find someone that will stay 3 or 4 years while also being very productive at Arizona.

Offline CatInFL

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Re: How he do dat?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2020, 08:07:31 PM »
A lot of good points about the one and done system.  It will be interesting to see what Miller can do when this mess is done in a year or two.  One and done has destroyed the joy I used to get from college basketball.

Offline Johnny-bravo

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Re: How he do dat?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2020, 10:02:44 PM »
Miller had us on a path to Long-term success but the Book situation and ESPN-created cloud pushed us off track.  Itís amazing to me Miller has done as well as he has recently under the circumstances.

Letís face it, Weíre in for a down year next year unless good sense prevails and Mannion and Green return (zeke I suspect will be gone).  The year after, I think we could be very good again.  I donít see any other coach bringing the program back to elite level any faster.

My hope is that Miller remains committed to Arizona and we remain committed to him.  Iíd love to see some upgrades on the assistants front. 

One last comment: I disagreed with the posts suggesting Miller treats new players unfairly.  Heís loyal, but not to a fault.  He demands freshmen work on D and most of them find this challenging.  I like that they have to knock off the older players.  Earn the playing time!


 




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