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Author Topic: So we're bad because of the FBI stuff, right?  (Read 572 times)

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Offline Liquidated

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So we're bad because of the FBI stuff, right?
« on: February 09, 2019, 08:26:34 PM »
Arizona 0-5 in our last 5 games. Wonder what we would be had the recruits not de-committed? Let's see how they did over their last 5 games.

Quinerly played 14 minutes, scored 2 points in the last 4 games, but he exploded against Seton Hall in garbage time for 8 points in 15 minutes. For all five: 8 points, 3 turnovers, 5 fouls, 2 assists and 3 rebounds. As anemic as his numbers are, he might well be a starter for us. 

Shareef O'Neal - out for the season.

Transfer Omar Theilemans had 0 minutes and 0 points but he did snag 0 rebounds and did not commit a single foul!


 



Offline AZBD

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Re: So we're bad because of the FBI stuff, right?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2019, 10:14:00 PM »
Well if you follow recruiting before the scandal broke Arizona was expected to get Bol, Little, & Shittu.

If no scandal breaks I don't think we get Coleman & Luther. IMO we end up with a team of

Bol/ Jeter
Shittu/ Lee/ Shareef
Little/ Smith
Williams/ Randolph
Quinerly/ Barcello

From following recruiting I did not anticipate Shareef playing major minutes as a freshmen. I truthfully felt he was a bad fit for us do to reportedly having an issue with motor, drifting on the perimeter, and needing to add strength. I felt we were a good place to work on those things but I did not think he'd play as a freshmen and thought he'd be a transfer.

Now lets say we still have bad luck and Bol is hurt & Williams still gets banged up. Maybe Jeter still misses time as well.

We'd still be in a lot better situation.

Jeter/ Lee
Shittu/ Little
Little/ Smith
Randolph/ Barcello
Williams/ Quinerly

Losing Williams would be a hit right now but still talent is much better. Our major weakness of rebounding would be a lot better. We'd have come into the season as a top 6 or 7 team. We probably wouldn't live up to those expectations but I bet a worst case scenario we'd be easily a top 25 team and would likely win the conference with how bad it is.

Offline Liquidated

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Re: So we're bad because of the FBI stuff, right?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2019, 01:01:18 AM »
Well if you follow recruiting before the scandal broke Arizona was expected to get Bol, Little, & Shittu.

If no scandal breaks I don't think we get Coleman & Luther. IMO we end up with a team of

Bol/ Jeter
Shittu/ Lee/ Shareef
Little/ Smith
Williams/ Randolph
Quinerly/ Barcello

From following recruiting I did not anticipate Shareef playing major minutes as a freshmen. I truthfully felt he was a bad fit for us do to reportedly having an issue with motor, drifting on the perimeter, and needing to add strength. I felt we were a good place to work on those things but I did not think he'd play as a freshmen and thought he'd be a transfer.

Now lets say we still have bad luck and Bol is hurt & Williams still gets banged up. Maybe Jeter still misses time as well.

We'd still be in a lot better situation.

Jeter/ Lee
Shittu/ Little
Little/ Smith
Randolph/ Barcello
Williams/ Quinerly

Losing Williams would be a hit right now but still talent is much better. Our major weakness of rebounding would be a lot better. We'd have come into the season as a top 6 or 7 team. We probably wouldn't live up to those expectations but I bet a worst case scenario we'd be easily a top 25 team and would likely win the conference with how bad it is.



Little Committed to UNC in October of 2017.

Bol committed to Oregon in November of 2017

Shittu to Vanderbilt in November of 2017

Only Little visited campus. I have no doubt that we were working to steal them, but they all ended up at the schools they committed to early...

Quinerly de-committed in October of 2017. I remember an article by Brad Allis or Gary Randazzo, not sure which, in which the assertion was that there was no way we would get him after that.

The third Wednesday of February (signing day) was FEB 21 and we were at Oregon State on Feb 22, which Miller coached as the story had not yet broken but on Feb 24th when we in Eugene he left.

Shareef bolted on Feb 24th, 2018, the day the Schlabach story broke. That seems curious to me, not to what until the outcome is known.

I don't follow recruiting, I know there are lots and lots of twists and turns but given that we have three players left from the #2 class, two years ago and only one of them starts, on the worst team we've had since 1984, I think projecting success based on more of the same is a a reach. No doubt we would be different and maybe Bol doesn't get injured if he comes to AZ, etc...

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Re: So we're bad because of the FBI stuff, right?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2019, 10:21:59 AM »
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas. There is a huge talent gap between this years team and teams that are 'ARIZONA' good. I can't see the future, let alone an alternate future where we assume things happening based on what might of been. Lack of talent, heart, and direction is this years problem. A few different faces might change the talent level, maybe help with a little more heart but the direction comes from the top.

I'll go ahead and say the whole athletic department is off course. UofA has 22 team NC, only 2 in the past decade. The 80's saw the rise of ARIZONA ATHLETICS (6), the 90' were the hay day ( 8 ) with top 5-10 NACDA results, the early 2000's showed waning success (6).  Softball leads the way, M & W swimming and diving, baseball, golf..mainly the women, then basketball.
 
Us old folks have seen a steady decline of the athletic dept. The crown jewel of UA sports, based on NC is clearly softball. 9 years since a WCWS for them. The weight of ARIZONA ATHLETICS rests on MBB. The cash cow that carries the dept. is in doubt , with out the righting of the ship all of AZ is in trouble. I see a commitment to the upgrading of facilities, this will help, but with out strong leadership this means very little

Who will lead us back to prominence? It sure doesn't look like Robbins or Heeke. Cedric Dempsey...we miss you.


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Offline Liquidated

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Re: So we're bad because of the FBI stuff, right?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2019, 12:06:05 PM »
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas. There is a huge talent gap between this years team and teams that are 'ARIZONA' good. I can't see the future, let alone an alternate future where we assume things happening based on what might of been. Lack of talent, heart, and direction is this years problem. A few different faces might change the talent level, maybe help with a little more heart but the direction comes from the top.

I'll go ahead and say the whole athletic department is off course. UofA has 22 team NC, only 2 in the past decade. The 80's saw the rise of ARIZONA ATHLETICS (6), the 90' were the hay day ( 8 ) with top 5-10 NACDA results, the early 2000's showed waning success (6).  Softball leads the way, M & W swimming and diving, baseball, golf..mainly the women, then basketball.
 
Us old folks have seen a steady decline of the athletic dept. The crown jewel of UA sports, based on NC is clearly softball. 9 years since a WCWS for them. The weight of ARIZONA ATHLETICS rests on MBB. The cash cow that carries the dept. is in doubt , with out the righting of the ship all of AZ is in trouble. I see a commitment to the upgrading of facilities, this will help, but with out strong leadership this means very little

Who will lead us back to prominence? It sure doesn't look like Robbins or Heeke. Cedric Dempsey...we miss you.


https://static.arizonawildcats.com/custompages/honors/team-national-champions/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACDA_Directors%27_Cup

Ouch.

I learned recently that Swimming and Diving is on double secret probation with the NCAA...

We need some hope and I think his name is Mark Harlan. He's the AD at Utah right now. He hired Willie Taggart and Charlie Strong at USF...their football program was 29-9 while he was there...and was the #2 guy at UCLA for a long time.

USF has had only three 20 win seasons ever in basketball and they did not improve while he was there, although he did fire Orlando Antigua mid-season and hire interim coach...Murry Bartow who went 1-16 as the interim coach. Mark was a good friend of the Tomey family growing up and was a trainer as an undergrad with the football team. He worked in the development office at AZ and was our Director of Basketball operations during he pinnacle of the Lute years, mid-late 1990's.
 

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Re: So we're bad because of the FBI stuff, right?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2019, 07:53:20 AM »
We've seen how missing ONE player can make a difference with this team.  Jeter & B-Will's absences threw us into a slide that makes Arizona Basketball look UGLY. 

Everybody was confident that Little was coming to Tucson before Quinerly decommitted (when Book's situation became public).  Shittu, among others, were serious prospects & they would have absolutely contributed this year.

Regardless, we have no idea whether Quinerly could have been a better player in Tucson.  I think we could have used a ballhandler that complemented B-Will as side-by-side combo guards.

We'd absolutely have more than 14 wins if we weren't being investigated. 

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Re: So we're bad because of the FBI stuff, right?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2019, 12:16:10 PM »
 
We'd absolutely have more than 14 wins if we weren't being investigated.

How do you figure? We weren't being investigated when we played in the Bahamas or lost to Wichita State the year after they were good.

What talent we've had has been shut down by Miller (inexcusably) or left after 1 year (just the way it is..I get that). He moved Markkanen inside when he was shooting .650 from 3 point range and screwed him up. He benched Simmons, the best player we've had in the past 3-4 years not named Ayton or Markkanen. He got about 40% out of Trier given what he's been doing in the NBA.

Transfers and injuries and early departures happen but if it was 1988 and we ignore graduate transfers and JC players our team right now would be:

SENIORS (#3 class):
Trier (early NBA)
Chance Comanche (bust at AZ but early to G League)
Ray Smith (bust - injured)
Justin Simon (bust at AZ - has had  solid career at St Johns)

JUNIORS (#9 class):
Alkins (early NBA) 
Markkanen (early NBA)
Simmons (forced out NBA)
Jeter (the single AZ good player of this entire group of 4 classes remaining after early departures)

SOPHOMORES (#3 class):
Ayton (early NBA)
Akot (bust, quitter)
Randolph (meh)
Barcello (tough MF'er but a bust)
Lee (a project) 

FRESHMEN:
Doutrive (a project, at best)
Theilemans (who?)
Williams (has not lived up to hype)

After the early departures - even if everyone else had stayed - where do you see the talent needed to win more games? Our issue is talent - maybe off court distractions too, bit talent is #1. ASU is more talented at every spot on the floor. Thats not because of the investigation. 



Imagine a Lute Olson coached team of:

Simmons/Williams 
Simon/ Randolph
Makkanen/Akot
Jeter/Alkins
Ayton/Comanche

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Re: So we're bad because of the FBI stuff, right?
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2019, 01:28:53 PM »
Markkanen was forced to play on the inside because Ristic couldn't play defense, Comanche couldn't play against D-1 competition and Pinder was undersized.  Despite the lack of frontcourt depth, Lauri pulled down 7+ rebounds per game and still shot almost 5 3PA per game...which shows that Miller utilized him in every aspect.

Simmons had no desire to play college basketball.  I would have followed Miller's lead & benched the guy that can't shoot 40% from the floor...especially when he can't rebound and has zero effort on defense.

Miller got the same production from Trier in college that the NBA is watching now.  He scored more points per minute at Arizona than he's putting up in NY...and the NBA defense is non-existent.  Miller allowed Trier to score more PPG under his tenure than any other player not named Ayton/D-Will.  Trier received the green light...which eventually cost us wins in the postseason.

I wish we were still in 1988.  Loved seeing kids that stayed in school for 4 years.  Can't wait for the day that college basketball reverts to the old-school way.  Ugh...

Offline Bear

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Re: So we're bad because of the FBI stuff, right?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2019, 06:34:42 PM »
What one player does for coach x at school z isn’t directly translatable to coach f at school j.  Shoulda woulda coulda.

I am not sure I follow the Lauri plight. In addition to what KC said, I would also add that Lauri’s numbers also slid when Trier became a starter again. And he needed to be, and was, a threat at more than one level.

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Re: So we're bad because of the FBI stuff, right?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2019, 08:44:00 PM »
Well, we could play hypothetical til the cows come in, no? Shareff comes to the desert and his heart is healed.  Bol comes and doesn't get injured.  Jelly isn't overwhelmed by the corruption in college sports, comes to Arizona and is an instant STAR.  Dido all others that we didn't know about.  Ha ha, we win.

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Online FlagCat

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Re: So we're bad because of the FBI stuff, right?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2019, 09:26:10 AM »
What one player does for coach x at school z isn’t directly translatable to coach f at school j.  Shoulda woulda coulda.

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