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Author Topic: Oficiating vs. Wake Forest was terrible.  (Read 569 times)

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Offline Liquidated

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Oficiating vs. Wake Forest was terrible.
« on: December 01, 2019, 09:25:07 PM »
it's not like there were any more bad calls or missed calls than usual, but the calls that were made consistently interrupted the flow of the game.

For example, we recovered a loose ball on the baseline and started up court with it... but a whistle called it back and ruled that it was out of bounds on the Wake player.  Yes, technically the correct call, but most officials (and I checked with college ref I know) would have let it go because we ended up with the ball anyway.

The hand off they called on Nnaji ...again technically a foul, but that is almost never called.


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Online Little George

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Re: Oficiating vs. Wake Forest was terrible.
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2019, 06:37:14 AM »
It was!

Offline Jav

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Re: Oficiating vs. Wake Forest was terrible.
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2019, 08:25:29 AM »
As an AZ fan I noticed the ones against AZ more, but there were a few really bad calls that went in Arizona's favor as well.  Just bad officiating most of the night.

Offline jumpinjohnny

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Re: Oficiating vs. Wake Forest was terrible.
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2019, 08:53:19 AM »
Officiating is a job few people take an interest in, and fewer people do well. It's a necessary evil that, more often than not, diminishes the enjoyment associated with high-level competition. It's too bad for everyone concerned that there doesn't seem to be a viable solution.
Read em and weep

Online BearDown93

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Re: Oficiating vs. Wake Forest was terrible.
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2019, 11:31:48 AM »
Officiating is a job few people take an interest in, and fewer people do well. It's a necessary evil that, more often than not, diminishes the enjoyment associated with high-level competition. It's too bad for everyone concerned that there doesn't seem to be a viable solution.

You nailed it Johnny.  There is no viable solution.  Very difficult job and the pool of people who can do it is just not deep enough.  If I'm not mistaking non of these guys are full time professionals at it right?  Part time gig?

Offline Liquidated

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Re: Oficiating vs. Wake Forest was terrible.
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2019, 01:57:26 PM »
Quote
Very difficult job and the pool of people who can do it is just not deep enough.  If I'm not mistaking non of these guys are full time professionals at it right?  Part time gig?

Not really true at all. I have a very close friend who is a college referee. It is highly competitive and the ones who make it to Division 1 have more than paid their dues. My buddy does high level high school games (national tournaments and state championships), junior college, women's games at schools like Grand Canyon and NAU and a very small smattering of Men's division 2 games.

He's been doing it for 20 or 25 years and is pretty certain that he's hit a ceiling. Someone has to take a liking to you and give you a break and then you have to have to become a good ole boy (see: Ed Rush) in order to climb further. IT is a tight knit fraternity and you are either in or out...most get weeded out.

Almost every D1 coach does it as their primary job during the season and most D1 coaches hold camps in the off season, and work other sports. Volleyball is a common thing for refs to work in the off season...so they keep their skills sharp. D1 refs make minimum of $1000 per game, but more experienced/respected ones can command more, sometimes a lot more. Good refs can make $100,000-$150,000 per year and thats basically in 5 months. Travel and expenses are covered too. Most of these guys are insurance agents or substitute teachers or something the rest of the year to keep busy, but at the D1 level, it is almost imperative that it be their #1 job priority. Guys like my buddy do not get that kind of money and so he has a full time job in addition to refereeing so its sort of catch 22 on the way up.

The conferences usually each have a small cadre of refs who only work that conference, they are generally older and closer to retirement and live in that area and are taking fewer games. Most refs, however, work in multiple conferences...so complaining about PAC12 officiating is a total joke... these guys work in the ACC and the Big 12 and Big 10 and WCC...they are all over the place. Although most limit their affiliations to just 3 or 4 conferences maximum. They can only work 1 game in a 24 hour period per NCAA rules so they are offered games by league commissioners and the better ones can pick and choose. Guys like my buddy get whats left over.

The horrifying thing is what they are taught to referee at those camps. They are literally told to keeps the calls close...and there is no intent whatsoever to call every foul. Only when one team gains competitive advantage....which makes the game flow better, but it is misnomer that they are there to call every foul. They have meetings before the games to discuss specific players and coaches - like the Ed Rush situation. The notion of impartiality is accurate in that the same stuff applies to both teams, but the fact that they will never call a foul with only a few seconds on the clock unless it is egregious  and things like like horrify my sense of right and wrong.

At the D1 level and many lessor levels, every single minute is reviewed by other referees...every call is evaluated and commented on back two the ref who made it. These guys are graded for everything, every minute of every game. The better the evaluation the more likely they will get called for the NCAA tournament.

I like to save complaining about the refs for when it really matters. The Ed Rush situation was unbelievable. The 2001 championship game I am totally convinced was corrupt officiating. So was Lute, BTW.

But last nights game was just a bad flow....the calls were same as always...Seems like the refs had an off night just like our players.

   
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Online BearDown93

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Re: Oficiating vs. Wake Forest was terrible.
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2019, 04:19:10 PM »
Interesting and thanks for the info.  When I say the pool is not deep I mean guys that do this full time. 

I did some googling because I was thinking about the NFL refs who I read also work regular jobs.  You would think the NFL refs of all refs could afford to be full time.  The NFL has been trying a full time referee program without success.  Again, from my little bit of reading.  Less games per year of course but the NFL should be the highest paying referee gig in the USA.

I would have thought this same thinking applied to NCAA basketball.  Information is sketchy but it does back what you are saying about 1-3k per game but that includes expenses.  Let's take the average of $2k and figure $500 expenses for a total of $1500/game.  And now let's say you do 50 games...that's $75k.  I think it's safe to assume there are very few guys making $100-$150k and doing it full time but of course I could be wrong.  Probably easier for ACC refs to do multiple games with less travel than PAC12 refs.
 Apparently they also cannot do more than one game in a 24 hour period.  That means you are probably doing a weekday game and weekend game. 

The PAC12 should move their you know whats out of San Francisco and use the money they save on rent to pay the refs better so they can concentrate on refereeing. 

Offline Liquidated

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Re: Oficiating vs. Wake Forest was terrible.
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2019, 10:44:38 PM »
Interesting and thanks for the info.  When I say the pool is not deep I mean guys that do this full time. 

I did some googling because I was thinking about the NFL refs who I read also work regular jobs.  You would think the NFL refs of all refs could afford to be full time.  The NFL has been trying a full time referee program without success.  Again, from my little bit of reading.  Less games per year of course but the NFL should be the highest paying referee gig in the USA.

I would have thought this same thinking applied to NCAA basketball.  Information is sketchy but it does back what you are saying about 1-3k per game but that includes expenses.  Let's take the average of $2k and figure $500 expenses for a total of $1500/game.  And now let's say you do 50 games...that's $75k.  I think it's safe to assume there are very few guys making $100-$150k and doing it full time but of course I could be wrong.  Probably easier for ACC refs to do multiple games with less travel than PAC12 refs.
 Apparently they also cannot do more than one game in a 24 hour period.  That means you are probably doing a weekday game and weekend game. 

The PAC12 should move their you know whats out of San Francisco and use the money they save on rent to pay the refs better so they can concentrate on refereeing.

Interesting about the NFL...yea, WOW. I cannot believe they are not full time.

I know in basketball you can do a lot more than 50 games over a season. Different conferences play on different nights tats why they do the WAC and the PAC or the ACC and the SEC... but I sent text to my buddy to call me so I can ask him about that. That $100-$150K figure is something he told me once and I assume that is the upper end.

Very funny... I stayed in a hotel near O'Hare a few years ago and the BIG10 headquarters is right there in a very nondescript, small office building right next door. Thats fairly cheap real estate and not any kind of showpiece (why would it need to be?), just functional and professional.

The PAC12 literally choose some of the most expensive real estate in America in the most expensive city in our conference. IDIOTS. Who are they impressing? The other conferences? The member schools? C'mon. 
"How does this guy still have his job?! That makes no sense...the world is getting nuked around him and Sean Miller is still there..."  - Mark Titus

 


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