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Offline Little George

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Guess work of who is staying
« on: March 14, 2019, 02:46:27 PM »
https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2019/3/14/18264879/arizona-wildcats-whos-in-whos-out-college-basketball-roster-m



Offline hawaii wildcat

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Re: Guess work of who is staying
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2019, 04:00:20 PM »
I really enjoyed this post, Little George.  I think we pick up a few big guys , and we will be just fine.  My cousin tells me that Gettings(?) spelling is pretty capable.  That would be gravy with what we have.

Offline Little George

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Re: Guess work of who is staying
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2019, 04:13:23 PM »
There are several intriguing players available.  Edward Turner interests me. 7'4" wing span on a 6'8" PF.
I like the energy Kenyon Martin has even if he is on 6'6"

Online TJ74

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Re: Guess work of who is staying
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2019, 04:28:40 PM »
I think the article on Desert Swarm is pretty much right on.  Smith, Randolph and Barcello need to move on for various reasons. Most important one is that none of them will see much playing time here. The wild card is Jeter.  He depends on what he wants to do.  Go to Grad school here and play ball or try to go somewhere else to improve or get paid - like europe or the g-leaque.  We need to pick up some guys who can bang inside.  Ira certainly can do that and I assume that Armstrong can also do that.  Not sure about Gettings, but his body type does not look like an inside guy. 

Offline Liquidated

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Re: Guess work of who is staying
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2019, 06:05:15 PM »
Every off season...same story....Next years class is so loaded the guys are so much better than anyone we have and none of them will every play the minutes they got this year....

Every season..year after year...juniors and seniors, who have proven not to be the amazing all everything players everyone thought they were as recruits...still start and play over hotshot freshmen. The only exceptions are the OND's (Ayton, Markkannen, Stanimal, Gordon) or if a position is wide open and real area of need (Nick Johnson stepped in when Momo transferred..etc). But Lavendar, Fogg, York, Pitts, Ristic, PJC even Mayes and several others were all the topics of off season posts about them having to transfer in order to get any minutes at all...

Miller plays a lot of people - a constant rotation and just like lute, favors upperclassmen, almost always. I just caution the thinking that, for example, Alex Barcello is gone because if he wants minutes he won't get them...history strongly suggests other wise.

And all of these hot shot recruits in next years class? Well their names in previous years were Randolph and Barcelo and Smith and Akot and Simmons and Comanche and Victor and...and... and...History here strongly suggests most of them will be busts. Sorry, its true.

So counting on Nanji to replace Ira Lee (just for example) is the same mistake that everyone made with Barcello...he was for sure going to replace PJC, to hear everyone on these boards two off seasons ago... and yet, somehow...that did not happen. Akot did to replace Dylan Smith either. Kobi Simons did not replace Kadeem Allen... its the same pattern, every year.

Offline Teamgame

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Re: Guess work of who is staying
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2019, 06:13:42 PM »
Kenyon Martin would be interesting...

Offline Bear

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Re: Guess work of who is staying
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2019, 06:45:38 PM »
Sound analysis. I could see a few alternatives though.

Even though Barcello isn’t starter material currently, there is a spot for him. Assuming both Williams and Mannion start, who will spell them? And Miller has to be concerned with injury especially after Williams knee pain this year. I am not seeing Doutrive ready for point guard duties yet. Plus Alex stays in his lane which is a value when you have other more gifted scorers. He won’t push beyond his limits like Smith and Doutrive are prone to.

Similarly, either Randolph or Smith could stay as a back up. Or Randolph could have a good off season and challenge for the third starting guard spot. I think Miller would want at least one of them to stay.

Jeter isn’t ready to go pro. Next season won’t change that. Why risk injury next season.  Take school out of the equation and spend more time developing with increased training opportunity and a paycheck to boot.

Offline mvpreed2

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Re: Guess work of who is staying
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2019, 09:10:49 PM »
I agree 100% with the “prediction” of each of those for my own personal reasons.
If I were to rank them from most likely to least for me, it would be this.
And this is under the assumption that DesJardins goes back to walk-on status.

Smith
Barcello
Randolph
Lee
Doutrive
Williams
Jeter
4-11-2011
9-14-2012
2-19-2013
7-29-2014

Online wc

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Re: Guess work of who is staying
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2019, 06:12:04 AM »
Hansen's take on returning players in his "Greg Hansen: Precarious offseason hinges on Sean Miller's future and his incoming freshmen" article. 

"As much as Miller’s future appears to be uncertain, so are those of UA players with remaining eligibility. My best guess is that Ira Lee, Brandon Williams and senior-to-be Dylan Smith will be the only players with eligibility who will return to Arizona."

My apologies in advance for quoting Hansen, but his take made me shake my head.

Offline KansasCityCats

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Re: Guess work of who is staying
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2019, 07:26:44 AM »
Every off season...same story....Next years class is so loaded the guys are so much better than anyone we have and none of them will every play the minutes they got this year....

It's the same story every year because Arizona DOES reload.  With the exception of Miller's 1st/last seasons in Tucson, the Cats have won 25+ games.  There's plenty of optimism during every offseason because we've consistently landed the best recruiting classes (Kentucky/Duke excepted).

I can't envision a situation where Dylan Smith doesn't become a grad transfer elsewhere.  His shooting is miserable & he would revert to the bench with our talented freshmen emerging next season.

Jeter is the wildcard.  He's a guy that likely won't leave because he'll be the focal point of an extremely good team.

Randolph may take his chances because he is an unbelievably long/athletic kid...however he needs a change of scenery.  I love watching him play, but he isn't progressing...and the Cats will have plenty of wings on the roster next year.

DesJardins will definitely give his scholarship back...and Akot already gave one up...which means we only "need" one player to transfer IF Nnaji sticks to his commitment & signs his LOI next month.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Offline wildcatinthewoods

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Re: Guess work of who is staying
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2019, 11:02:45 AM »
Every off season...same story....Next years class is so loaded the guys are so much better than anyone we have and none of them will every play the minutes they got this year....

Every season..year after year...juniors and seniors, who have proven not to be the amazing all everything players everyone thought they were as recruits...still start and play over hotshot freshmen. The only exceptions are the OND's (Ayton, Markkannen, Stanimal, Gordon) or if a position is wide open and real area of need (Nick Johnson stepped in when Momo transferred..etc). But Lavendar, Fogg, York, Pitts, Ristic, PJC even Mayes and several others were all the topics of off season posts about them having to transfer in order to get any minutes at all...

Miller plays a lot of people - a constant rotation and just like lute, favors upperclassmen, almost always. I just caution the thinking that, for example, Alex Barcello is gone because if he wants minutes he won't get them...history strongly suggests other wise.

And all of these hot shot recruits in next years class? Well their names in previous years were Randolph and Barcelo and Smith and Akot and Simmons and Comanche and Victor and...and... and...History here strongly suggests most of them will be busts. Sorry, its true.

So counting on Nanji to replace Ira Lee (just for example) is the same mistake that everyone made with Barcello...he was for sure going to replace PJC, to hear everyone on these boards two off seasons ago... and yet, somehow...that did not happen. Akot did to replace Dylan Smith either. Kobi Simons did not replace Kadeem Allen... its the same pattern, every year.


This post alone just lets us know you really don't know what you're talking about and you just post to piss people off. You're listing off a bunch of middle of the run 4 star players. Comparing Nico (who is a finalist for the top player of the year) and Green is lauighable. No one thought Barcello, Randolph, Mayes, Lavendar, commanche, smith were gonna be saviors for our school. Maybe you did. but none of us did. Zeke is a far upgrade over Lee but no one is replacing Lee. He has is own game.

We will have one of the best back courts in the contry with Williams Nico and Green. Miller has never had two point guards this good.

Offline Liquidated

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Re: Guess work of who is staying
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2019, 12:16:20 PM »
Every off season...same story....Next years class is so loaded the guys are so much better than anyone we have and none of them will every play the minutes they got this year....

Every season..year after year...juniors and seniors, who have proven not to be the amazing all everything players everyone thought they were as recruits...still start and play over hotshot freshmen. The only exceptions are the OND's (Ayton, Markkannen, Stanimal, Gordon) or if a position is wide open and real area of need (Nick Johnson stepped in when Momo transferred..etc). But Lavendar, Fogg, York, Pitts, Ristic, PJC even Mayes and several others were all the topics of off season posts about them having to transfer in order to get any minutes at all...

Miller plays a lot of people - a constant rotation and just like lute, favors upperclassmen, almost always. I just caution the thinking that, for example, Alex Barcello is gone because if he wants minutes he won't get them...history strongly suggests other wise.

And all of these hot shot recruits in next years class? Well their names in previous years were Randolph and Barcelo and Smith and Akot and Simmons and Comanche and Victor and...and... and...History here strongly suggests most of them will be busts. Sorry, its true.

So counting on Nanji to replace Ira Lee (just for example) is the same mistake that everyone made with Barcello...he was for sure going to replace PJC, to hear everyone on these boards two off seasons ago... and yet, somehow...that did not happen. Akot did to replace Dylan Smith either. Kobi Simons did not replace Kadeem Allen... its the same pattern, every year.


This post alone just lets us know you really don't know what you're talking about and you just post to piss people off. You're listing off a bunch of middle of the run 4 star players. Comparing Nico (who is a finalist for the top player of the year) and Green is lauighable. No one thought Barcello, Randolph, Mayes, Lavendar, commanche, smith were gonna be saviors for our school. Maybe you did. but none of us did. Zeke is a far upgrade over Lee but no one is replacing Lee. He has is own game.

We will have one of the best back courts in the contry with Williams Nico and Green. Miller has never had two point guards this good.

This is absolute revisionist history.

Every recruiting guru I knew though (including several refs who called his his games in HS...)thought Barcello would be starting by PAC12 season his Frosh year at PG.

He was the #1 over all recruit in AZ. 
He was the 247 #17 guard nationally.
He was #83 on the ESPN top 100...

He's also taller than PJC. Post after post on the board I was on I was on spent all off season about PJC accepting lessor role or transferring. Literally the same language in this article.

People revise their estimation of players based on performance, which is only natural, but assign that re-evaluation to the past...For example, ask most people about Sean Elliott and everyone thinks because he was a MCD's AA that he was recruited by every blue chip program out there. Back then Parade Magazine All-American meant more (he was not even mentioned) and literally the only scholarship offers Elliott had were regional schools. I have actually discussed this with him, personally. ASU was the only other PAC10 school to offer. UTEP, New Mexico...schools like that were the only ones.

And then it becomes like a mantra. Repeated every year.  "Miller has never had two point guards this good". Miller also never had point guard as good as Simmons, Lyons, Turner.... you can find that about almost any player.

This is just part of the recruiting thing...it happened exactly the same under Lute, although I think less often as there were well established, truly great players on the starting roster... no one was going to suggest that Iggy would be benched for Hassan Adams, no matter how Adams was rated in H.S.

But with a team of 7-8 major disappointments, totally unproven as players at this point - speculation runs rampant. 

I hope Mannion IS that good.  Same for Green and Nnaji and everyone else...maybe there will be some great surprises... but the simple fact is, we've had five or six freshmen ever that started from day 1 because they were good enough to (instead of due to desperation) and those were all one and done guys. Maybe Mannion is the next one hopefully like Ayton was the next one instead of like Williams was the next one.



 


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