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Offline Liquidated

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Without the Schlabach B.S. Article....
« on: January 24, 2019, 11:41:10 PM »
We would be....EVEN WORSE!

When Schlabach wrote that asinine article, we had three signed recruits: Brandon Williams (PG), Jhavon Quinerly (PG) and Shareef O'Neal (a 6-9 forward).

Shareef O'Neal - has no stats for the season and is out with a heart condition that he had surgery for. Not sure he will play BB again, he is not even listed on UCLA's roster. 

Quinerly has been a total bust (so far) at Villanova and has made an ass of himself being unflattering to their program, etc...
He is shooting .333 FG%, .207 3pt%... think he would probably fit right in at AZ! But there is a log jam at guard and they are all better or more experienced than he is...I do not see how he would have helped in any way.
 
JHAVON QUINERLY:
SEASON AVERAGES
SEASON   TEAM   MIN   FGM-FGA   FG%   3PM-3PA   3P%   FTM-FTA   FT%   REB   AST   BLK   STL   PF   TO   PTS
2018-19   VILL   10.4   1.2-3.6   .333   0.4-1.9   .207   0.6-0.9   .692   0.8   1.1   0.0   0.3   0.8   0.9   3.4
 
So as a result, Miller scrambled and came up with Luther and Coleman and Theilmans, who frankly are more productive than Quinerly and O'Neal, even with Theilmans transferring to some school no one has ever heard of.

Bol Bol de-committed long before the Schlabach mess... He had some amazing numbers against terrible teams early, but has not played since Dec 15th and will not return this season. CLEARLY the staff was living and dying by Bol Bols commitment - he is the only 'big' man and he is a one and done, even now.

BOL BOL:
SEASON AVERAGES
SEASON   TEAM   MIN   FGM-FGA   FG%   3PM-3PA   3P%   FTM-FTA   FT%   REB   AST   BLK   STL   PF   TO   PTS
2018-19   ORE   29.8   8.2-14.7   .561   1.4-2.8   .520   3.1-4.1   .757   9.6   1.0   2.7   0.8   1.7   2.0   21.0
SEASON TOTALS
SEASON   TEAM   MIN   FGM-FGA   FG%   3PM-3PA   3P%   FTM-FTA   FT%   REB   AST   BLK   STL   PF   TO   PTS
2018-19   ORE   268   74-132   .561   13-25   .520   28-37   .757   86   9   24   7   15   18   189


The #1 class (which won't be once other schools finish their classes) will be a big help, but frankly, not nearly enough. Our program is in trouble. 



Online mvpreed2

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Re: Without the Schlabach B.S. Article....
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2019, 07:11:14 AM »
It's easy to make that comparison NOW that you've seen everyone play, but I am not sure I would take Coleman over Quinerly right now.
We don't play like Villanova so you can't sit here and say that JQ would put up the same numbers had he come here.
I would bet a paycheck that his numbers would be better because he would get more minutes and more opportunity.
Williams is doing his thing, and that is pretty much what I expected from him.
Same as JQ, we would have no idea that O'Neal would have needed heart surgery before the season.
Bol would have been a nice piece for us and probably would have been a Ayton 2.0 prospect for us.

I didn't see you mention anything about the OTHER prospect that was supposed to be coming to Arizona though, Nassir Little.
He plays a small role for UNC, only playing 19mins/gm, but I know he would have been a starter and playing at least 24mins/gm.
We would have been A LOT better on paper than we are this season, but too many unknowns and this season isn't even over yet.
Anything can happen and we are one huge prospect away from being THE team in the PAC-12 and I would bet Miller is holding on to one more scholarship to use in the spring/summer on someone, I would bet on it..

Our program is not in trouble, step away from the ledge fam..
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Offline ATX_Wildcat

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Re: Without the Schlabach B.S. Article....
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2019, 07:33:22 AM »
Not many programs could lose all five starters to graduation and the draft and not have an off year the following season.

And you are correct that based on the recruiting class affected by the Schlabach article would have made little difference in that situation. As others have said, this yearís squad is not Arizona good.

You can blame Millerís offensive scheme and itís inability to break the zone consistently, but when the team shooting percentage is in the 20ís you arenít going to defeat Sisters of the Poor, let alone USC.

Possibly one of the most painful games to watch since the Illinois debacle.

Offline jumpinjohnny

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Re: Without the Schlabach B.S. Article....
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2019, 07:53:35 AM »
We would be....EVEN WORSE!

When Schlabach wrote that asinine article, we had three signed recruits: Brandon Williams (PG), Jhavon Quinerly (PG) and Shareef O'Neal (a 6-9 forward).

Shareef O'Neal - has no stats for the season and is out with a heart condition that he had surgery for. Not sure he will play BB again, he is not even listed on UCLA's roster. 

Quinerly has been a total bust (so far) at Villanova and has made an ass of himself being unflattering to their program, etc...
He is shooting .333 FG%, .207 3pt%... think he would probably fit right in at AZ! But there is a log jam at guard and they are all better or more experienced than he is...I do not see how he would have helped in any way.
 
JHAVON QUINERLY:
SEASON AVERAGES
SEASON   TEAM   MIN   FGM-FGA   FG%   3PM-3PA   3P%   FTM-FTA   FT%   REB   AST   BLK   STL   PF   TO   PTS
2018-19   VILL   10.4   1.2-3.6   .333   0.4-1.9   .207   0.6-0.9   .692   0.8   1.1   0.0   0.3   0.8   0.9   3.4
 
So as a result, Miller scrambled and came up with Luther and Coleman and Theilmans, who frankly are more productive than Quinerly and O'Neal, even with Theilmans transferring to some school no one has ever heard of.

Bol Bol de-committed long before the Schlabach mess... He had some amazing numbers against terrible teams early, but has not played since Dec 15th and will not return this season. CLEARLY the staff was living and dying by Bol Bols commitment - he is the only 'big' man and he is a one and done, even now.

BOL BOL:
SEASON AVERAGES
SEASON   TEAM   MIN   FGM-FGA   FG%   3PM-3PA   3P%   FTM-FTA   FT%   REB   AST   BLK   STL   PF   TO   PTS
2018-19   ORE   29.8   8.2-14.7   .561   1.4-2.8   .520   3.1-4.1   .757   9.6   1.0   2.7   0.8   1.7   2.0   21.0
SEASON TOTALS
SEASON   TEAM   MIN   FGM-FGA   FG%   3PM-3PA   3P%   FTM-FTA   FT%   REB   AST   BLK   STL   PF   TO   PTS
2018-19   ORE   268   74-132   .561   13-25   .520   28-37   .757   86   9   24   7   15   18   189


The #1 class (which won't be once other schools finish their classes) will be a big help, but frankly, not nearly enough. Our program is in trouble.

"Our program is in trouble."

Is that code speak for fire Miller? I might agree if Tom Izzo said he wanted to work on his tan, but that ain't happening, so no thanks.
Read em and weep

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Re: Without the Schlabach B.S. Article....
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2019, 07:58:54 AM »
The argument is fair that our recruiting situation is likely better because Nico/Josh both committed...and I'm not 100% sure that they wouldn't have gone to Nova if Quinerly didn't get cold feet & run to Jay Wright.

Regardless, ESPN's false/negative reporting has still damaged the overall perception of the program.  Fortunately, recruits are realistic and know that if Arizona goes down, the entire college basketball landscape will go down as well.

Arizona would still struggle with Little/Quinerly on the roster.  If JQ played the "true PG" role, he may still be better than Coleman (who had 0 Assists and 2 TO's last night).  Little would likely be a better option than Luther as a PF.

The good news is that the roster will be stacked next season. 

Offline Liquidated

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Re: Without the Schlabach B.S. Article....
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2019, 12:03:58 PM »
The argument is fair that our recruiting situation is likely better because Nico/Josh both committed...and I'm not 100% sure that they wouldn't have gone to Nova if Quinerly didn't get cold feet & run to Jay Wright.

Regardless, ESPN's false/negative reporting has still damaged the overall perception of the program.  Fortunately, recruits are realistic and know that if Arizona goes down, the entire college basketball landscape will go down as well.

Arizona would still struggle with Little/Quinerly on the roster.  If JQ played the "true PG" role, he may still be better than Coleman (who had 0 Assists and 2 TO's last night).  Little would likely be a better option than Luther as a PF.

The good news is that the roster will be stacked next season.

I don't think the Schlabach article did as much damage as Miller leaving Oregon and looking guilty, or as the Book situation did, or the PED's did with Trier being out for 1/2 season or the plane tickets....the cumulative effect is the issue...you can explain each and everything away..so can UNLV fans under Tark or Miami Football fans or any fan of Billy Tubbs or Kelvin Sampson or Jim Harrick and their cess pool programs.... add Arizona to that list now.


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Re: Without the Schlabach B.S. Article....
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2019, 12:23:01 PM »
Not sure why you never reference Lute: http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/171418-ex-arizona-coach-lute-olson-rips-ncaa

His contributions to the beginning of the Miller Era actually "sanctioned penalties" on the Arizona Program..unlike the previously mentioned problems that Miller brought to Tucson.

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Re: Without the Schlabach B.S. Article....
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2019, 08:58:49 PM »
Kansas please donít compare the allegations against Lute and the allegations against Miller. The allegations under Millerís stewardship are much more damaging to the image of the program,long term. Iím aware of the Jason Terry incident, Wessel incident, but they are not nearly as damaging. Lute was the HC for over 20 years- Miller 10 years. Right, Wrong or indifferent thatís the national perception of the UofA.(Cheaters on numerous levels) ESPN has done as much as it could possibly do to tarnish CSM image. Lute was fortunate that social media was almost nonexistent during his tenure as HC.

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Re: Without the Schlabach B.S. Article....
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2019, 10:23:22 PM »
My point is that they were only "allegations", yet the perception is that Miller has destroyed our program (that was falling into a black hole prior to his arrival).

The worst penalties under Miller's tenure was Keanu Pinder sitting for ONE game and Phelps going a week without pay (I think).  Pretty minuscule, considering ESPN makes it seem like Pitino is coming to "clean up" the Pac-12.

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Re: Without the Schlabach B.S. Article....
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2019, 01:48:01 PM »
Not sure why you never reference Lute: http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/171418-ex-arizona-coach-lute-olson-rips-ncaa

His contributions to the beginning of the Miller Era actually "sanctioned penalties" on the Arizona Program..unlike the previously mentioned problems that Miller brought to Tucson.

3 reasons:

1. He went to the final four, multiple times. If your going to cheat, at least win. Of course, he did not cheat.

2.Stroke addled, confused Lute signing his name to a letter for a basketball camp that had zero recruits for AZ and not one player we were interested did not give us a commutative advantage and there was no intent to cheat. We gained nothing from it, it just happens to be a major NCAA violation. The FIRST ONE EVER for Lute. AZ was one of three programs that had zero major NCAA infractions over a 25 year period. That was the first. There was a great SI article about it. Ironically, ASU was one of the most penalized BB programs (point shaving, etc...).

3. Millers entire staff is corrupt. Everyone is indicted, under investigation or has self reported violations. Book was bribed to funnel current players to services. Phelps bought a plane ticket. Pasternak has laundry list - have not heard how that went for him, and he's now 3 years removed, but was caused of a lot of stuff at AZ. Miller is accused off offering money to player and is so innocent that he has 1. not specifically denied offering money to 'any' player, only to that specific player (Ayton) and 2. left Oregon when the story broke rather than stand and fight as an innocent man would do. He protected Pitts, alienated Harvey Mason...

NOTHING during Lute's years was anything at all like these violations. NOTHING. Terry took pair of Sneakers from an agent. Mill's dad was a scumbag before he got to AZ and what else? NOTHING. 


 




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Re: Without the Schlabach B.S. Article....
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2019, 02:01:19 PM »
My point is that they were only "allegations", yet the perception is that Miller has destroyed our program (that was falling into a black hole prior to his arrival).

The worst penalties under Miller's tenure was Keanu Pinder sitting for ONE game and Phelps going a week without pay (I think).  Pretty minuscule, considering ESPN makes it seem like Pitino is coming to "clean up" the Pac-12.

 
The program was not falling into any 'black hole' when Miller arrived, they had just gone to the sweet 16. There was talent and tradition - some of it did not work out but it was there and it had been exceptionally well coached. I'm not an O'Neill fan - but he is great coach at getting the most out of his players. Dunlap, as a head coach, had won 2 national championships and was the national runner up and played in 2 other Final Fours in Division II. He's not doing so well at Layola, but he is widely respected as a brilliant X's and O's guy. Reggie Geary has become a championship coach as well. Our players had great instruction, played hard and were talented, high BB IQ guys. That is not a black hole.

Pretty sure you or I could have coached that team to a similar record. Maybe not recruit like Miller did (still maybe his best over all class)

Mike Stoops inherited a black hole from Whackovic.  Lute inherited a black hole from Lindsey.


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Re: Without the Schlabach B.S. Article....
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2019, 07:08:20 PM »
The 2008-09 accomplishments are moot because Miller didnít inherit those players.

In April 2009, Arizona has zero recruits and the roster consisted of Jamelle Horne, a ďrawĒ Kyle Fogg, Lavender, Shumpert, Judkins, Jacobson...and Miller had to convince Wise to remain at the bare-cupboard program.

If Miller didnít come in and quickly recruit the six kids to Tucson (including Wise), Horne and Fogg would be the only two contributors left on the team. That is a serious black hole.

Phelps helped a player by loaning money so he could see family. Thatís dedication. He had the intent to get reimbursed and the NCAA obviously agreed that it was a ridiculous sanction because they ignored the situation.

Archie never had issues. Romar never had issues. Regardless of Luteís past, the timing of his major violation still affected the program. The fact that he tried to remain as the head coach after the stroke kept the Cats from hiring a coach during the offseason  and if it werenít for Miller, we might be a bottom feeder in an awful PAC-12. 

Thatís why Iím patient with Millerís postseason struggles. Things could be much worse with Floyd, Pastner or OíNeill.

 





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